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Sticky:[Winter] Missile Rebalance + Hurricane tweak

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 63 post(s)
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 134	Posted - 2012.09.20 05:56:00 - [1] - Quote I personally never really use heavy missiles (only for PVE) but I think 20% reduction to damage is a bit excessive along with 25% range reduction AND affected by tracking disruptors. It is fairly excessive in my option perhaps a lower 10% reduction would make sense. There's another thing that bothers me is Tracking Disruptors being an all in one module that affects all types of ships with simply a switch of a script. ECM have different racial jammers that make them fail often when pairing the wrong ship with the wrong jammer. Sensor damps are pointless for close range ships and ships that lock faster than you can lock. I believe that Tracking Computers, Enhancers, Links, and Disruptors should have a separation. One group of modules for Turrets and One group of modules for Missiles. This will ensure that TD will not become all God module that is useful in all situations. I personally think that rather than nerfing the PG on the hurricane, the other ships should have a PG buff so they can fit proper modules.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 134	Posted - 2012.09.20 06:12:00 - [2] - Quote Meta Pyrr wrote: Interesting changes but a little confused the word "tracking" in the title. It is more associated with turrets. How about adding new modules or rename the current like some kind "weapon computer/enhancer/disruptor"? Next, if we compare the missiles and turrets and traced some injustice in the medium and large size. Missile weapons like HAM and Torpedoes consumes a lot of resources spaceship (CPU/PG) compared with turrets. This will be sometime changed? I personally am against an all in one module. There should be two group: Turret and Missile. You have the tracking disruptor for Turrets and Missile disruptor for Missiles. Having a single module group would make it into a God module that everyone will fit.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 136	Posted - 2012.09.20 23:45:00 - [3] - Quote Torpedoes have the same range as HAMs, increase the range of Torpedoes. Oh and don't say that TE and TC will fix that problem because Large Blasters shouldn't have the same range as medium blasters. Infact I think all unguided missiles should be looked at. They have short range than guided long range missiles, yet they have worse "tracking". Rigs and Guided Missile Precision(should be changed) skill does not affect Rockets, HAMs, or Torpedoes. This makes short range missile inferior than guided missiles even within short range, due to poor effective dps. A Heavy missile will do more applied dps to a cruiser than a Heavy Assault Missile does. Heavy missile vs Heavy Assault: Heavy missile: 125m exp radius 81ms exp velocity Heavy Assault: 125m exp radius 101 exp velocity You can see here that it may seem that Heavy Assault Missiles are better, but look at the results once we factor Guided Missile Precision: Heavy Missile: 94m exp radius 81ms exp velocity Heavy Assault: 125m exp radius 101 exp velocity What do these numbers mean? Heavy Missiles have a much lower exp radius that Heavy Assaults. In the missile damage formula, the Explosion Radius has a MUCH more significant affect on damage application compared to Explosion Velocity. Missile Damage Formula: Damage = D * MIN(1, Sr/Er, (Ev/V * Sr/Er)^(log(DRF) / log(5.5)) ) where D = base damage of the missile, Sr = signature radius of the target, Er = Explosion radius of the missile, Ev = Explosion Velocity of the missile, V = velocity of the target ship, DRF = damage reduction factor of the missile. MIN being a function that chooses the lower of two given vaules, and log being the natural logarithm of the given value. TL:DR: HAMs, Rockets, and Torpedoes should receive exp radius reduction from guided missile precision and rigs, in order to be better at close range applied dps than their long range variants. Torpedoes need an increase in range, it has the same range as its medium range counterpart HAM's.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 136	Posted - 2012.09.21 00:22:00 - [4] - Quote CCP need to either reduce exp radius of HAM's or allow GMP skill to affect all unguided missiles as well. Because currently HAM's have shorter range than HML and worse "tracking" because there is no possible way to reduce its exp radius that guided missiles can. Rigs that reduce exp radius and the skill the reduce exp radius do not apply to Unguided Missiles.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 137	Posted - 2012.09.21 01:52:00 - [5] - Quote Unless TD is broken into two groups like missiles and turrets modules. TD will become the new ECM. And Unlike ECM, TD is single module that affects all ships with just a change of a script. ECM requires the use of racials and fitting beforehand to be truly effective, otherwise you'll be betting on luck to get your jams off using weak or wrong jammers. TD however is a 100% guaranteed crippling on every conceivable type of dps ship in the game(except lulz drones) Anyone can clearly see that TD will become a new God module, and this is coming for a Curse Pilot. TD needs to have two different types. One for Missiles and one for Turrets. Therefore the pilot will have to choose between either missiles or turrets, rather than just fit one and win.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 139	Posted - 2012.09.21 03:40:00 - [6] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Ark Anhammar wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Yes there is a substantive reason. It's called "balance". "Balance" as in my friends who fly Legions and Loki in gangs have to put up with the same TD as a Proteus does? Or is it "balance" in that "I need special modules made juuuuust for my missile ship"? That kind of balance? Yeah, that's really balanced. And everyone saying that TDs "need to be balanced" by having different modules: TDs are currently NOT balanced in that they don't affect missiles at all. Having them affect missile launchers, and giving missile launchers a way to combat TDs with allowing TCs and TEs to affect them IS balancing them. Get over yourselves and learn to deal with the same problems the rest of us have had to deal with since we started playing. So in other words, you want a single module that works on disrupting the weapons systems of every single ship. That's probably what he wants. As I pilot that flies a curse and uses TD, having such a thing would be overpowered for a single module. It needs to be like how ECM have racial types and the weakass multispec.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 139	Posted - 2012.09.21 06:57:00 - [7] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Dato Koppla wrote: Eckyy wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes... how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted then break the scripts into 4 tracking script range script missile guidance script (flight time) anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius) That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption. Seconding, good balancing factor against TD. I fail to see how that makes any difference. Exactly, it changes nothing. You have an all in one god module that disrupts every dps ship with a switch of a script. ECM is balanced in a way that it requires fitting the correct racials to be effective. RSD is pointless against fast locking close range ships which lock faster than you can. Target painters is useful for locking faster and hitting targets harder, but does not have an overpowering effect. The New tracking disruptors however will. Imagine a significant reduction in range or tracking reduction against missiles and turrets. All you need is a single module and can change scripts on the fly to affect all dps ships in the game. Having it divided between Turrets and Missiles will force the pilot to choose turrets or missiles and prevent it from becoming overpowered.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 139	Posted - 2012.09.21 08:48:00 - [8] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Soon Shin wrote: The New tracking disruptors however will. Imagine a significant reduction in range or tracking reduction against missiles and turrets. All you need is a single module and can change scripts on the fly to affect all dps ships in the game. How about this: - Two scripts for every weapons system in game (8 scripts in total) and for example projectile range disruption script doesn't have any effect on lasers, hybrids or missiles. - Switching script takes 30-60 seconds - When switching scripts you can't activate any other module or move Still doesn't make a difference you don't get it. Why make such ridiculous limitations that overall changes nothing. Just make a missile disruptor and leave td as it currently is. You will have to choose between fitting one OR the other not both.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 139	Posted - 2012.09.21 09:20:00 - [9] - Quote I will guarantee that the majority of ships you will encounter will fit a TD, if allowed to affect all weapons with a change of a script. TD were not overly prevalent due to being useless against missile ships. You fitted one on expectations of fighting a turret ship, if you guessed wrong you had a module that was useless for the situation and just wasted a midslot. But if these changes happen you remove the stragedy and thinking of fitting a TD or not. You now just fit one and pretty much win if your opponent doesn't have a TD of their own. This will become a must have module to fit in order to be competitive and will become a severe issue in the game. Even Fozzie acknowledges that such a problem could happen. But this can all be avoided if ccp makes a separate module for missile disruption.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 139	Posted - 2012.09.21 18:19:00 - [10] - Quote Regardless of the TD/TE/TC changes you refuse to ignore the fact that HAM's have worse damage application therefore worse effective dps than Heavy Missiles. All the guided missiles receive a better damage application bonus through the Guided missile precision skill that lowers their explosion radius by 25%. Non of the guided missile get this bonus nor do they get any bonus from rigors. Heavy Missiles and HAM's have the same Base explosive range, but once your apply GMP skill the Heavy Missile has a much lower explosion radius than HAM's. Giving it better "tracking" than HAMs. This is as broken as having beaming having more absolute tracking that pulse lasers. I don't care if the TE/TC changes makes it better the fact remains is that Unguided missiles have less damage application and effective dps than Guided missiles, TE and TC will NOT fix this issue.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 140	Posted - 2012.09.21 18:34:00 - [11] - Quote Also we must make two different modules for weapon disruptors. One for Turrets. Another for Missiles. This will ensure that players will have to think and choose. Akin to having Racial ECM. This will ensure that TD will not become overpowered and a module that everyone uses as a GOD module that affects all dps ships with a change of a script.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 144	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:31:00 - [12] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Doddy wrote: MotherMoon wrote: it can effects missles, it just can't effect the range of the missles. TD kinda makes sense that it could target the missile and cuase it's explosion radius or explosion velocity to change. missles losing range is allready the job for damps. Well a missile having difficulty finding its target burns more fuel as it keeps adjusting so it does kinda work too. I am dubious of the whole td thing though tbh, it looks a mess. Alternately, just view the TD effect on the missile as a missile specific web field. It really doesn't matter. The whole game is magic anyway Damps are not missile specific. Damps are operating on a different part of the ships in the game. Damps affect the ability to lock, like ecm does as well. TDs are affecting the weapons or weapon systems, not the sensor systems. No logical inconsistency in it. Because again it's all magic anyway. Edit - I'm sure Fozzie could come up with some creative backstory reason as well https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1932514#post1932514 You completely ignore that fact that having TD affect both Missiles and Turrets will make it a GOD module. Missile needs a separate module to affect missiles, so it requires thinking and planning of whether to fit a missile disruptor or turret disruptor.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 145	Posted - 2012.09.22 07:10:00 - [13] - Quote Lev Arturis wrote: Ocih wrote: Sleipnir 300 mill Damnation 180 mill Nighthawk 220 mill Eos 225 mill T2 Nova on that Damnation with no damage mods (tank and e-war) has 118.2 dps in the launchers. It only has 62.5 km target ability so it won't make any difference to me if you nerf range but you really need to nerf the damage? If you force the Drakes to match optimals with their opposition you won't need to nerf damage on heavy missile. Why are comparing Field and Fleet Command ships? (you know apples & oranges...). Also a Damnation has a bonus to HAM and not to HM Fleet Command ships shouldn't even be considered, their role is to boost the fleet and have huge tank, dps is the least of their concern. Infact I would exchange the weapon bonus for even more tank.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 161	Posted - 2012.10.12 07:55:00 - [14] - Quote Onictus wrote: Screwed by the naga? You are kidding right? Naga us one of the better tier 3 for gang work Did you fly the "torp" Naga on SiSi, it was terrible....a horrible horrible ship, Crap range, Crap damage and pain to fit. I don't care about missile PvP that would be like ragequittig because my ogre IIs don't destroy all in PvP. It's a silly emotional argument with no basis in fact. In a properly balanced game all weapon systems should be viable and worth using, ignoring bad weapon systems and leaving them be is bad balancing.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 175	Posted - 2012.10.25 06:31:00 - [15] - Quote ^ The typhoon is a fearsome ship in PVP, the Raven however is lulzworthy and laughable, with their purpose being relegated to POS bashing and Capital Bashing, even they are not even close to best at that. The Raven is slow, they lack fitting for PVP, they lack tank due to requiring painter,mwd,scram, and web. Leaving you with only 2 slots to tank.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 191	Posted - 2012.10.30 03:57:00 - [16] - Quote You never seen Ravens in fleet fights due to cruise missile having poor damage application and the time it takes to travel, along with counting volleys. While with turret ships you can alpha strike right away and know that the target is dead. While with cruises you waste precious seconds confirming the death of the target.

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